这段对质的背景是Yigal Achmon教授对我制定了详细的谋杀计划两年后，2024年6月12日，我来到广以。我当时在和朋友做一个糖尿病神经病学转录组分析有关的项目。我先和几个在广以的朋友见了面。然后和Yigal Achmon教授见了面。这次见面我是有准备的。由于他的造谣方式一般是造一些我难以自证的谣言，编造一些双方之间根本不存在的经历。这种谣言虽然可以通过很多侧面证据来澄清，可问题是侧面证据的解读需要大量的专业背景知识，难以让公众理解，所以辟谣十分困难。而能让公众迅速理解的方式，一般只有当面对质。而在这时，他对我的造谣已经达到了非常可怕的地步，他一个连PCA都不会画，测序质量都不会看的土壤学副教授，居然成了一个对我有教育贡献的生信方面的专家。
这些对质证实了。我不是他的实验室成员，从未参加过他的组会，无偿帮助他解决了许多生物信息学问题，没有任何形式的报酬，也没有教育方面的帮助。
The background of this confrontation is that I came to GT on June 12, 2024, two years after Prof. Yigal Achmon made a detailed murder plan for me. I was working on a project with a friend on transcriptome analysis of diabetic neuropathy. I met with a few of my friends first. Then I met Prof. Yigal Achmon. I was prepared for this meeting. Because his method of fabricating rumors is usually to make up rumors that are difficult for me to refute, and fabricate experiences that do not exist. Although such kind of rumors can be clarified through a lot of side evidence, the problem is that the interpretation of side evidence requires a lot of professional knowledge and is difficult for the public to understand, so it is very difficult to refute the rumor publicly. The only way for the public to quickly understand is face-to-face confrontation. At this time, his rumors about me had reached a very terrifying level. In those rumors, he, a soil science associate professor who could not even draw PCA or identify the sequencing quality, became an expert who had made educational contributions to me.
These confrontations confirmed it. I am not a member of his lab and have never attended any of his group meetings. I have helped him solve many bioinformatics problems without any form of feedback or education.
相关录音在B站上有 【和Yigal Achmon教授在2024年6月12日的谈话，当面确认了和他合作期间发生的所有关键事件。】 https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1HJsueEE7V/?share_source=copy_web&vd_source=20127f5412a60d248a433b825f68c3bb
Related record is available in YouTube https://youtu.be/4Xhn8Wrzxdk?si=USSjhuhIZSX-Htme
0:00 Li Tuobang: “could we have any possible solution?” 我们能不能有个解决方案？(在录音中我说话比较结巴，是因为我当时反复思考如何对质。我平时的英文语速会比这里快很多。）(I stuttered a lot in the recording because I was thinking over and over again about how to confront him. My usual English speaking speed is much faster than here.)
0:15 Yigal Achmon: “the last time I spoke with Prof. Eli, and he said that he will check what he can do, and again, I told you many many times and I tell you again it’s not connect to me in any form, it’s not in my power, nothing in my power in that related issue and I’m trying to help as much as I can” 上一次我和Eli教授谈话的时候，他说他会检查他能做什么。我再次重申，我跟你说过很多次，这件事跟我完全没有关系，我没有任何权力去决定相关的事情，我一直在尽最大努力帮助你
0:36 Li Tuobang: ” We can first review. I mean first” 我可以先回顾已经发生的事。0:45 Yigal Achmon: ”you’re talking now just on joining back to GT or Technion?” 你是不是就在谈重新成为广以学生或以理学生的事？（他在暗示我，停止违法犯罪行为，停止论文抄袭，这些事是不能谈的，只能谈重新入学，而这也是说尽好话都不愿意的）(He is implying that my real hope, stop doing illegal and criminal activities, stop trying to plagiarize my papers, those things are not takable. The only thing that can talk is joining GT or Technion, and even that, they are unwilling to do so).
0:49 Li Tuobang: ” Yes. I mean it is just like, for example, if I remember correctly that in the end of 2020, I also sit here and you help me to review the lab introductory lecture, right?” 是，如果我的记忆准确的话，2020年年底的时候，我也是坐在这里（他的办公室），然后你帮我补了一趟实验课的介绍课。 （我之前在3月份明确跟他在微信视频中强调，希望他能停止一切违法犯罪行为，但是他的反应是，那些事情都不是我做的，跟我没有任何关系，都是别人做的，我可以帮你解决那些问题，我是在帮助你的，我是为你好。这是他从2021年4月开始对我说的最常用的几句话，他反复这样说以至于我很长时间居然相信了，直到2021年12月的时候我才反应过来他说的话全是反话。加上这次我的主要目的是对质，我就没有在这个问题上再浪费时间和他争，以免影响对质效果。当时他是那个实验课的理论上的主管教授，而实验课实际的教学是由实验室主管老师负责的，不是由他负责，他在那个课的任务就是上第一堂介绍课。那堂介绍课我因故迟到了，他给我单独在办公室回顾了介绍课的内容。 ）(I clearly emphasized to him in a WeChat video call in March that I hoped he would stop all illegal and criminal activities, but his reaction was that those things were not done by him and had nothing to do with him, but were done by others. He can help me solve those problems. He is helping me. He is doing it for my own good. This is his words since April 2021, he repeatedly said those things so for a long time, until December 2021, I believed that. In addition, my main purpose this time is to confront him, so I will not waste time arguing with him on this issue to avoid affecting the effect of the confrontation. At that time, he was the supervisor professor of the lab course, but the actual teaching of the lab course was the responsibility of the laboratory manager, his only task in that lab was to teach the first introductory lecture. I was late for the introductory lecture for some reason, he reviewed the contents of the introductory lecture for me alone in the office.)
1:23 Li Tuobang: I sent you an email and I shared an interest for your research, and then we don’t have any talk and then on March we have several talks and then you suggested me to add a course and the course, the topic is finding the relation of the volatile to the microbiome. Yes it’s just like that and then but after that we, no, I added the course and you send me a data sheet, a CSV. That contains the metabolics data and so later we (I have a habit of saying we when talking a group work, but I did all the analysis) did that and then we uh and then I submitted you a a re-analysis report and then it’s good and then you and then we move forward and you said that or we can, of course we both, hope that it can be finished in the summer but later that we, no, I, have some issues, personal issues, I do not finish that but generally it’s not matter and this is basically most things we talked right?Most things we talked. 我在那节课之后给你发了一封邮件表达对你的研究的兴趣。在那之后我们没有任何谈话，在三月，我们有几场谈话，你建议我注册一门研究课，课程的话题是探索挥发性有机物和微生物组之间的关系。随后我注册了那个课。可你随后发给我一个数据文件，CSV。里面包含了代谢组的数据，所以之后我对那个数据做了相关分析。在那之后，我们，哦不，我，向你提交了一份分析报告。那份报告做的很好。然后你说希望，哦不，我们都希望，能在暑期完成这项工作。但在那之后，我们，不，我，出了一些问题，个人问题。我没有按时完成。但总的来说不是很重要。这些事情就是我们谈过的大部分重要的事情，对不对？大部分。（他帮了我忙之后，我比较感谢他，所以大致翻看了一下他的论文，给他写了邮件对他的研究表示兴趣。他是做土壤病虫害防治的，和我爸的森林病虫害防治很像。他在2022年4月份给我发了一大堆数据文件，里面有一个CSV是包含代谢组数据的，代谢组是比较贵的，那个数据对应的实验是2016年在加州大学戴维斯分校做的，它当时由于其他组学数据没有处理完毕，而且他自己后来又离开了戴维斯分校，来了广以，有各种事情，和原来的合作伙伴的关系也不再紧密，所以相关论文迟迟没有发表。而到了2021年的时候已经拖了接近五年了。我看了之后做了相关分析，在5月提交了一份报告，分析报告的内容包括使用SolCyc进行代谢通路分析，KEGG进行代谢功能分析，使用QIIME2进行微生物组分析，使用PICRUST2进行微生物群落功能分析，还有相关网络分析等。这些报告帮助他理清当前的研究情况和判断接下来的研究方向。
我的能力是很强，但我平时对其他学生老师一直是装做我是一个有一点优秀的普通学生。我对展现自己的能力是非常小心的。当然那份报告涉及的知识面很多，所以是展露了一些工作能力。但我在那份报告里并没有展现什么特别的天赋。当然在广以只有我能把这些东西一个人在一个月内做完，但是如果在其他985大学，应该也是有极个别高年级本科生是可以完成的。这如果类比其他专业的话，大概就是一个高年级的本科生完成了一个985二年级博士的工作。这当然是比较优秀，但广以也是有两三个这样的本科生的。所以我说我当时展现的能力大概就是广以前三生物系第一这样的水平。这个优秀是优秀，是属于几乎每个普通人日常都有可能遇到，有交集的那种优秀。你们可以类比自己高中大学最优秀几个同学，大概就是那种优秀。在那之后，我暑假因病多次去医院治疗，然后整个人状态一直都不怎么好，所以工作进度就慢了下来，暑期没能完成所有数据的进一步分析和论文撰写）(After he helped me, I was quite grateful, so I reviewed his papers and sent him an email expressing my interest in his research. He specializes in soil pest control, which is quite similar to the forest pest control work my father does. In April 2021, he sent me a large number of data files, including a CSV file containing metabolomics data. Metabolomics is relatively expensive, and the data correspond to experiments conducted in 2016 at the University of California, Davis. At that time, other omics data were not yet processed, and since he later left UC Davis for GT, his relationship with the original collaborators became less close, so the related paper had been delayed. By 2021, the delay had been nearly five years.
After reviewing the data, I conducted relevant analyses and submitted a report in May. The analysis included using SolCyc for metabolic pathway analysis, KEGG for metabolic function analysis, QIIME2 for microbiome analysis, PICRUSt2 for microbial functional analysis, and various network analyses. These reports helped him clarify the current research situation and determine the next research directions.
My ability is very strong, but to other GT students and teachers, most of the time, I pretended that I am a common student. I was very careful about showing off my abilities. And would only do that when necessary in a controllable way. Although the report covered a broad range of knowledge, it mostly demonstrated my working abilities rather than any special talent.
In GT, only I could complete such work within a month, but at top universities, it might be possible for a few advanced undergraduate students to achieve the same. In comparison with other fields, it’s like a senior undergraduate completing work that a second-year PhD student at a top 500 universities would do. While this level of excellence is impressive, it is the kind of excellence that almost anyone could encounter or have some intersection with in daily life. You can compare it to the best students you knew in high school or university—it’s that kind of excellence.
After that, I had several hospital visits during the summer due to illness, and my overall condition was not very good, so my work progress slowed down. I wasn’t able to complete further data analysis and manuscript writing during the summer.）
2:54 Li Tuobang: Then the key issue I think that we have some misunderstanding. It’s about three things but those three things maybe not very important. I don’t think it’s pretty important. 然后，我认为在这一过程中，关键是我们有一些误会，主要是三件事，但是那三件事其实不是很重要，至少我认为不是特别重要（主要是他犯了学术上的错误而引发的三次争执，我在暗示那些争执可能引起了我们之间的一些误会，所以让他找我麻烦。但那些争执本身在我看来不是很重要。）（The main issue was the academic errors he made, which led to three disputes. I hinted that those disputes might have caused some misunderstandings between us, which could be why he started to trouble me. However, in my view, the disputes themselves are not very significant.）
3:10 Yigal Achmon: It is for you. 对你来说是这样的。
3:17 Li Tuobang: I’m not sure whether it is important for you. I mean it’s first is for some analyses I have different suggestions and but those are not a big issue and then you asked that businessman he that’s so but you also said that he back to netheland. 我不是很确定对你来说是不是重要的。首先是对一些分析，我有不同的意见，但那些事情总的来说不是什么大问题。然后你叫了一个商人来学校。但你后面（2023年9月），也说他回荷兰了。 （首先是2021年5月，我指出他的PCA错误，他不听，之后，6月初，我指出他的测序质量很差，不能用，他也不听，在然后，11月，他找了个没有什么学术能力的商人来学校讲座，我跟他争执到凌晨，他才意识到那人不靠谱。后面2023年9月我和他微信语音的时候，我说，”我虽然私底下语言表达可能让人不快，但我提那些建议确实是为了你好的，我爸就说我是个傻瓜，不应该跟你讲那个商人不靠谱。“他当时说，“你说的没错，你帮我做事的时候是很诚心的。那个商人后来把他公司关了回荷兰了，临走前跟我说，那个小子（我）说的都是没错的，就是说话不怎么好听。”
我当时不敢直接跟他点出PCA和测序质量这两个单词，因为这是他此前最忌讳最敏感的问题，他在2023年8月反复威胁我要我将所有和这两个事件有关的资料全部删除，因为他希望塑造一个自己在生信方面很强的形象，而连PCA怎么画都不知道，测序质量怎么看都不知道，显然就会直接拆穿他的那些谎言。 ）(First, in May 2021, I pointed out his PCA errors, but he didn’t listen. Then, in early June, I mentioned that the sequencing quality was very poor and unusable, but he still didn’t listen. Later, in November, he invited a businessman with no academic credentials to give a lecture at GT. I argued with him until the early morning before he realized that the person was unreliable. In September 2023, during a voice chat on WeChat, I said, ‘Although my words might be unpleasant, my suggestions were genuinely for your benefit. My father said I was a fool for telling you that the businessman was unreliable.’ He responded, ‘You were right; you work from your heart when helping me. That businessman later closed his company and returned to the Netherlands. Before leaving, he told me that what you (referring to me) said was correct, though your way of speaking wasn’t very pleasant.’
At the time, I didn’t dare to directly mention PCA or sequencing quality because these were the issues he was most sensitive about. In August 2023, he repeatedly threatened me to delete all materials related to these two issues because he wanted to present himself as very knowledgeable in bioinformatics. Since he didn’t even know how to draw PCA or assess sequencing quality, acknowledging these issues would directly expose his lies.)
3:17 Yigal Achmon: Yeah, back to Sweden, and stop the bussiness. 是，返回瑞典了，停止了他的业务。 （我也不记得是瑞典还是荷兰了，我完全没有跟踪那个事件）(I don’t remember whether it was Sweden or the Netherlands; I didn’t keep track of that event at all.)
3:40 Li Tuobang: Yes it’s okay. I mean a lot of people like that. 是，这没什么关系。很多人这样。 （我在打圆场，说有些错也没什么大不了的，很多人这样。当然这些错本身确实没什么的，被那些话术骗的人非常多，可这体现了他对生信是一无所知的。当然对生信一无所知本身也没什么大不了的，大多数土壤学家都不怎么了解，可他当时在不停在背后造谣他的生信很强，对我的教育有贡献，这就是胡说八道了。我主要是要拆穿这个谣言。）(I’m trying to smooth things over, saying that some mistakes aren’t a big deal and that many people make such errors. Indeed, these mistakes themselves are not significant; many people are deceived by such rhetoric. However, they reflect his complete ignorance of bioinformatics. Of course, not knowing about bioinformatics isn’t a big deal in itself—most soil scientists don’t know much about it. The issue is that he was constantly spreading rumors about how strong his bioinformatics skills were and how much he contributed to my education. That’s just nonsense. My main goal is to expose this false claim.)
3:44 Yigal Achmon: Yes he’s working now in the company. 是，他现在在一家公司打工。（已经关掉在中国的公司，回去打工了）(Has shut down the company in China and returned to work.)
3:48 Li Tuobang: I did not follow. I don’t care about. So anyway that after this, the key issue is that we I mean you know that Alex (Dr. Alex Semusev) that he did something on my lab and then we have entered very different stage and so and then after that, no, before that all our relation is just like that, right? 我没有关注那件事。我也不在乎。总的来说，在那件事之后，关键事件就是，你知道的，Alex (Dr. Alex Semusev)，他在我的实验课上干了些事情。然后我们的关系就进入了一个非常不同的阶段了。在那之后，哦不，在那之前，我们之间所有的关系就是我说的那样，对不？ （在我告诉那个商人不靠谱之后，紧接着当天下午他就警告我，如果不早点完成论文撰写，不早点发表，我那个研究课可能会不能通过，老师会问我一些很难的问题。然后我可能会不能毕业。在这之后两周，Dr. Alex Semusev博士就将我从实验课踢出来了，那个实验课Yigal Achmon教授是主管教授，他是有权利帮我的，可不管我之后怎么跟他说，都没有用。而在我们的关系破裂之前，我跟他之间发生的所有的关键的事件就是前面提到的那些。）(After I told him the businessman was unreliable, that afternoon he warned me that if I didn’t finish the paper and publishing it soon, my research course might not pass, and the committee might ask me very hard questions. This could potentially delay my graduation. Two weeks later, Dr. Alex Semusev removed me from the lab course, which was overseen by Prof. Yigal Achmon. Prof. Yigal Achmon had the authority to assist me, but no matter what I said to him afterward, it was all in vain. All the key events that happened between us before our relationship broke down were the ones mentioned earlier.)
4:13 Li Tuobang: I want to first, so basically that I before that I mean I I have several talks with you and did something for you and I did not sign any documents to your lab and or something or join any your group meetings. I consider that I consider that but at that time the main thing is that. 我希望首先，所以总的来说，在那件事之前，我和你有几次谈话，我为你做了一些事情，我没有签署任何加入你实验室的文件，也没有参加过你的组会。当然我曾经考虑过，但那个时候主要有个问题（我在回顾所有的关键事件进行对质，他认为我说的有问题或者有什么需要补充的他会随时打断我。他在这些事情上的反应是很快的。）(I was reviewing all the key events for clarification, he would interrupt me at any time if he thought there were issues with what I was saying or if there was something that needed to be added. His responses to these matters were very prompt.)
4:37 Yigal Achmon: You want to join? I don’t understand, the lab talk or the group meeting? 你希望参加吗？我不理解，是希望参加小组讨论，还是整个实验室的组会呢？ （Yigal Achmon教授的实验室有三十多个学生，分成几个小组，据我所知他们整个实验室有时会开会，小组也会开会。他认为我根本不想和其他人讨论，不想参加那些会。）(Prof. Yigal Achmon’s lab has over thirty students, divided into several groups. As far as I know, the entire lab sometimes holds meetings, and the groups also have their own meetings. He believed that I had no interest in discussing with others or participating in those meetings.)
4:39 Li Tuobang: I have such thoughts. I have such thoughts. 我曾经有考虑过的 （总的来说，我对参加他开的会总的来说没有什么兴趣，但我有考虑过参加一两次体验一下认识一些他实验室的学生。）(In general, I have no interest in attending his meetings, but I have considered attending one or two to experience it and get to know some of the students in his lab.)
4: 42 Yigal Achmon: I would have no problem to take you in, I remember that you you don’t want to involve with other. 我肯定希望你能参加。但我记得你当时不想和其他人交谈。 （5月份的时候，有一次我路过一间教室，他和他实验室的学生在开组会，我打了一个招呼，他招呼我也加入。具体日期我已经记不清了。当时那个时候我还没有想好是否加入他的实验室，所以拒绝了。我不是很记得那件事是发生在PCA事件前还是后，那件事中他表现出的对学术规则的无知是我不想加入他实验室的主因。但在那件事之后我只是没有签名，没有回复他的邮件，没有办理任何手续，并没有明确告知他我以后永远不可能加入他的实验室。一方面，我们当时还是合作关系，一般这种情况就是默拒，另一方面， 我当时也还没有下那个决心。我是在测序质量事件发生后才下这个决心的。而他那段时间非常希望我给他的实验室的学生开课，我答应了，后面准备了相关的课纲和材料，但是因为他催促要完成论文，课程一直没开。）(In May 2021, I once passed by a classroom where he and the students in his lab were having a group meeting. I said hello, and he asked me to join him. I can’t remember the specific date. At that time I had not yet decided whether to join his lab, so I refused. I don’t quite remember whether that incident happened before or after the PCA incident. The main reason I did not want to join his lab was his ignorance of academic rules during that incident. However, after that event, I simply did not sign any documents, did not reply to his emails, and did not complete any formalities, without explicitly informing him that I would never join his lab. On one hand, we were still in a collaborative relationship at the time, and usually, in such cases, a silent refusal. On the other hand, I had not yet made up my mind at that moment. It was only after the sequencing quality incident that I made that decision. During that period, he was very eager for me to teach a course to his lab’s students, and I agreed. I prepared the relevant syllabus and materials, but the course was never conducted because he kept urging me to finish the paper.)
4:56 Li Tuobang: I have very complicated reasons that because you. Because at that time, you know that some, for example, like the Foster he also want to approach me. Yes he want approach me and I did not response him, we don’t contact. But I also want to approach him. 我有很复杂的原因。因为那个时候，你知道的，发生了一些事。比如Foster，他想接近我。我没有回应他，我们没有联系，但我也想接近他。 （Foster在2021年7月在微信群有公开向我喊话，这在当地的文化里一般就是表示善意，表示希望结识对方，这我是知道的。）(In July 2021, Foster publicly reached out to me in a WeChat group, which in the local culture generally signifies goodwill and a desire to get to know someone. I am aware of this.)
5:10 Yigal Achmon: I am confused. 我感到疑惑。
5:21 Li Tuobang: Yes, but the reason that I did not approach him is that because I know that the reason he want to approach me is that he have a sequencing that is processing in BGI and he want me to help him publish that sequence right? 是，但是我当时没有回应他的原因是，因为我知道他希望联系我的原因，是他有一些样本在华大基因做测序，他希望我帮他分析那些数据，帮他将那些数据发表出来，对吧？ （Yigal Achmon教授在2021年4-5月给华大基因送了一些样本做测序，Foster当时在做一些实验，也把他的几个样本夹杂在那些样本里。而Yigal Achmon教授在5月底六月初让人给我看了那些序列，我也看到了Foster夹杂的样本，我当时知道那些样本的测序质量都很差，是不能用的。然后我立刻找到Yigal Achmon教授，他当时在和他的学生聊天，我把他叫出来，小声跟他说，那些测序质量都很差，不能用。他说，那是华大的问题，要他们重新测，不然就不给钱。我说那不太可能是他们的问题。随后我们有一些争执，主要是我跟他说那些测序质量都很差，让他先检查一下自己的流程，不要继续寄样本了，而他还是很执着的继续寄。而且他认为那些序列没有差到不能发表的程度。随后我跟他演示了许多问题，他还是不听。
直到2021年10月份他才跟我说，他也意识到那些测序质量很差，不能用，在想办法解决。在那之后我们共同回顾了实验流程，发现华大测序用的提取试剂不是PowerSoil Kit，这是一个土壤专用的提取试剂，他在加州大学戴维斯分校是经常用的，他其实也知道很重要，但是来中国后，和华大的交流都是中文，他因为语言问题搞不懂华大究竟用的是那种试剂。 ）
(In April to May 2021, Prof. Yigal Achmon sent some samples to BGI Genomics for sequencing. At that time, Foster was conducting some experiments and mixed a few of his own samples in with those samples. At the end of May or early June, Professor Achmon showed me those sequences, and I noticed the samples from Foster. I immediately realized that the sequencing quality of those samples was very poor and unusable. I quickly approached Professor Achmon, who was chatting with his students at the time, pulled him aside, and quietly told him that the sequencing quality was poor and the samples could not be used. He said that it was BGI’s problem and that they needed to redo the sequencing, otherwise he would not pay. I said it was unlikely to be their problem. We had some arguments, mainly because I insisted that the sequencing quality was poor and that he should first check his own process and stop sending samples. However, he was still insistent on continuing to send them. He also believed that the sequences were not bad enough to be unpublished. I demonstrated many issues to him, but he still did not listen.
It wasn’t until October 2021 that he acknowledged that the sequencing quality was indeed poor and unusable, and he was looking for ways to resolve the issue. After that, we reviewed the experimental process together and discovered that BGI used an extraction reagent that was not the PowerSoil Kit, which is a soil-specific extraction reagent that he frequently used at UC Davis. Although he knew it was important, he had difficulty understanding which reagent BGI used due to the language barrier in his communications with BGI in China.)
5:37 Yigal Achmon: But those sequences are very poor and they can never be published. 但那些序列的质量都很差，永远也发表不出来。
5:39 Li Tuobang: Yes, so at that time, I don’t know how to explain this issue, but now he understand it. 是，所以那个时候我不知道怎么跟他解释那个事情。但我觉得他现在是懂的（我在面对别人的错误的时候，虽然当面我会很直接的点出来，但是在面对其他人，尤其是他的学生的时候，我是不会说的。他的那些学生还一直以为他在生信上有什么特长，我也不想拆穿他，而是小心维护他在他学生面前的威严。所以当时面对那种情况，当那个Foster希望加我微信的时候，我能做的就是不理他。因为如果一跟他说话，肯定不可避免就要提到那个测序质量不能用，而且那个时候Yigal Achmon教授还不认为那个测序不能用，到时两人争执有第三人看着，很快就知道谁对谁错，而我还在跟他合作，我不想处理那么难堪的局面。）(When dealing with others’ mistakes, although I am direct about pointing them out in person, I do not bring them up when interacting with other people, especially with his students. His students still believed he had expertise in bioinformatics, and I did not want to disillusion them but rather carefully maintain his authority in their eyes. So, at that time, when Foster wanted to add me on WeChat, the best I could do was to ignore him. If I engaged in conversation, it would inevitably lead to discussing the unusable sequencing quality, and at that moment, Prof. Yigal Achmon did not yet believe the sequencing was unusable. Any argument between them with a third party observing would quickly reveal who was right and who was wrong. Since I was still collaborating with him, I did not want to handle such an awkward situation.)
5:41 Yigal Achmon: He understand by himself. 他自己肯定懂的。
5:45 Li Tuobang: oh. 哦。
5:48 Yigal Achmon: Because the result works. So I got it. 因为现实就是那样。哦，我理解你的意思了。
5:49 Li Tuobang: It’s normal I mean it’s normal especially. 这很正常，很正常。 （我在打圆场，这些错误也没什么大不了的。事实上呢实验室测序质量差这种事本身是没什么大不了的，想办法提高就可以了，可Yigal Achmon教授的问题是他在长达几个月的时间里都不认为那些质量差。）(I was just trying to smooth things over; these mistakes are not a big deal. In fact, poor sequencing quality in a lab is not a major issue; it can be improved with some effort. The real problem with Prof. Yigal Achmon was that he did not acknowledge the poor quality of the sequencing for several months.)
5:54 Yigal Achmon: No, here the problem was not the sequence, it is a problem but the sequence was the minor problem the major problem was the metadata. Because he tried to anerobic digestion with sugar can, and the result. 不，问题主要不是测序，测序是个问题，但是个小问题，主要是问题是元数据，因为他在做甘蔗的无氧发酵。 （他当时测序文件的元数据，也就是不同样本对应不同组的文件，似乎也是有问题的。好像把实验组和对照组搞混了。这个我当时也注意到了，有跟他做了一个小热图跟他解释过的。当时因为他不听，我直接跟他说，我希望支持你的研究，希望帮助你，这些序列我可以帮你做分析，你自己看着办，但论文不要写我的名。结果他当时说，这个结果很新颖，我觉得能发表在一篇4分的杂志上，难道把你名字写在一篇4分期刊的论文上很丢你脸吗？我说，首先是对的才有意义，而且如果我想发，我可以每个月发一篇论文在4分的期刊上。随后我多次劝说他停止寄样本到华大去，想办法提高一下自己的实验质量。他却不听。
明明是实验错误，却被当成了新颖结果，我当时的震惊程度可想而知。事实上他当时反复跟我争执的真正含义是，那些测序质量可能是很差，但你还是尽量帮我处理及早发表出来，因为第二年夏季我就要长聘考核了，我现在还一篇最后作者的论文都没发出来呢。而我也是理解他这层意思的，我那些话的意思是：我没有发表压力，不需要为了发文章而发文章。我不想跟这种事情扯上什么关系。而且我当时判断他要找出原因重新测序还是来得及的，一般测序一个月就能完成，发论文一般是一到六个月，而分析和写论文一个月就足够了，所以他当时还有至少四个月时间，正常的思路应该是先试图找出问题所在，实在不行再想想怎么用其他质量好的数据发论文。我后面有跟他说，要不发其他的论文也可以，他确实有压力的话我也会帮忙的。 ）(
At that time, the metadata for the sequencing files, which corresponded to different groups for different samples, seemed to have issues. It appeared that the experimental and control groups were mixed up. I noticed this and made a small heatmap to explain it to him. Since he didn’t agree, I directly told him that I wanted to support his research and help with the analysis of these sequences, but that he should not include my name on the paper. He responded by saying that the results were novel and that he thought they could be published in a journal with a 4-impact factor, implying that it wouldn’t be embarrassing for me to be listed on such a paper. I told him that correctness is what matters, and if I wanted to publish, I could easily publish in 4-impact factor journal every month. I then repeatedly advised him to stop sending samples to BGI and to focus on improving his experimental quality, but he didn’t listen.
It was clear to me that he was misinterpreting experimental errors as novel results, which was shocking. The real meaning behind his repeated arguments was that, although the sequencing quality might be poor, he still wanted me to help process and publish it quickly because he was facing a tenure review the following summer and hadn’t published a final-author paper yet. I understood this underlying pressure and conveyed that I didn’t have publication pressure myself and wasn’t interested in publishing just for the sake of publishing. I believed it was still possible for him to find the problem and redo the sequencing, as sequencing usually takes a month, and publishing typically takes one to six months, with analysis and writing taking about a month. Thus, he still had at least four months. The logical approach would be to first try to identify the problem and, if necessary, consider publishing with higher-quality data. I later told him that publishing other papers was also an option, and if he was under pressure, I would help if needed.)
6:12 Li Tuobang: because I, after that, I also worry that whether it such would cause some misunderstanding yes I also think about it. But I think he also he understand well 在那件事之后，我也有担心过他会不会对我有误会，但我觉得他会理解我的难处的。
6:20 Yigal Achmon: Yes. 是
6:28 Li Tuobang: but generally well, generally I considered to approach him to help me do something on that. 总的来说，我希望接近他的原因是希望他能帮我做一些事。
6:20 Yigal Achmon: Tomato. 番茄。 （那个2016年加州大学戴维斯分校的实验是以番茄为主题的）(The 2016 experiment at UC Davis was focused on tomatoes..)
6:26 Li Tuobang: Yes, I consider that . 是，我有考虑过。
6:36 Yigal Achmon: You know where he is now? 你知道他现在在哪吗？
6:39 Li Tuobang: He is in Netherland, no in Europe, in a Europe project. 他现在好像在荷兰，哦不，是在欧盟，一个欧盟项目。
6:43 Yigal Achmon: He is now in the FAO. 他在联合国粮食及农业组织。
6:45 Li Tuobang: He already ended his master degree now. 他已经结束了他的硕士。
6:53 Yigal Achmon: Between the PhD, in the FAO. 准备去读博，现在在联合国粮食及农业组织。
7:00 Li Tuobang: Oh it’s it’s a very good. Because if I remember correctly that have some relation with government. 哦，那很好，我记得和政府有些关系。
7:09 Yigal Achmon: United Nation. 联合国。
7:12 Li Tuobang: Yes it’s very good. So I consider. Anyway, I am not very good at those things. Indeed now, if looking back, I can approach him, I mean, at that time, I’m not very good at that time, dealing with such situation. 是的，那很好。所以我当初会考虑。总的来说，我不是很擅长那些事情。现在回想，我可以接触他。但我当时确实不擅长处理那种情况。（不知道如何跟他解释那些错误的同时又不至于影响Yigal Achmon教授的声望）(I didn’t know how to explain those errors to him without damaging Prof. Yigal Achmon’s reputation.)
7:28 Yigal Achmon: Unfortunately, I think he could help you and you could help him. 很遗憾，我觉得他本来可以帮你的，你也可以帮他。
7:33 Li Tuobang: Yes, of course. He is a good student. If now you have something that you want to uh we can work together analyze and something, I need to see and consider what we (can do). I also currently work with some students in GT. Yes, and they can also join you do something. It’s also okay. 是，他是个好学生。如果你现在有一些东西，你希望我（分析的），我们可以一起做。我需要考虑什么东西我们可以一起做。我现在在和一些广以的同学工作。是的，他们也可以加入你的实验室，帮你做一些事情。这也是可以的。
8:03 Yigal Achmon: Yeah, I first would like to see with seriously to see with if there is a possible way sustainable way for you to be registered. He said that on things that you are much better than anyone else in computing in math. I don’t know if it’s feasible or not, said he will check. I will remind him (Prof. Eli). Because then you registered in Israel and that’s much easier. Maybe you can do it here but please register. I don’t know. I’m not in charge. I just ask, he say that, he will try to figure it out. Because he knows you and knows that you have the cognitive capabilities to do it which is not everyone and you know it of course you need to want it but first let’s see that it’s possible that’s one thing that I want to check with him, the other thing yes I would like to, of course to help and have things and you will succeed you know but I really want to make it clear what kind of relationship so you will not feel that I doing anything wrong I don’t want to do anything wrong to you just wanting your success so we need some to you know to put it in the right cover that you don’t feel like I don’t want you to feel like I’m I’m trying to use you in any way. I don’t I really don’t want to I want you to do well so I feel like if I’m now offering you something. Again and I cannot pay you or I cannot give you degree which is not my right, then I might consider that I’m using you last.是，我首先要看有没有一种办法可以让你注册，一种可持续的方法。他（Prof. Eli)，说你比其他学生在计算和数学上要好很多。我不知道注册是否方便，他说他会看。我会提醒他。如果你注册在以色列，那会简单很多。你可以在这里工作，注册在以色列。我不知道。我不负责这些事情。我只是问。他说那些事情。他会找办法解决。因为他知道你，知道你有天赋去做一些不是每个人都能做的事。你知道，当然，首先是你想要。但首先，让我看看有没有办法这样做。我会和他一起看。另一个问题。是，我想去帮你，帮你成功，你知道，但我希望先讲清楚，这是什么关系，所以你不会感觉到我在做一些错事。我不希望对你做错的事。我只希望你成功。所以我们需要你知道，将一切事情放在正确的开端。你不会觉得我在利用你。我真的不希望，真的不希望你这样想。我希望你觉得我在给你什么。当然我不会给你付钱或者给你学位，我没有这个权力，但我总是想着你好。 （这是他的常见话术，这个当时在背后鼓励大批学者抄袭我论文的杀人未遂分子，一口一个希望我好。他希望能一边杀掉我，另一边我还要向他感恩。杀人诛心是他的最高追求）(This is his typical rhetoric—at that time, this attempted murderer was subtly encouraging numerous scholars to plagiarize my papers while pretending to wish me well. He wanted to destroy me while still having me be grateful to him. Inflicting harm while undermining one’s spirit is his ultimate pursuit.)
9:25 Li Tuobang: Prof. Achmon, I think I think you miss I think this is misunderstanding. Okay, I need to say that for your project. I have an interest I mean if you are another professors for another University, for example Sun Yat Sen University or something like that and then if you tell me that well you have a project about biosolarization. I have some data could you help me and could you teach my students, I will do that I yes I will do that. I have. I mean it’s not some use Yigal Achmon教授，我觉得这里有些误会。我需要说的是，对你的项目来说，我有兴趣的。如果你是其他学校的教授，比如中山大学的教师，你跟我说你有一个土壤生物日晒的项目，有一些数据，希望我帮忙，能不能教一下我的学生，我会做的。我不觉得这是利用。
9:55 Yigal Achmon: I want to make sure that if you do it you accept to be on the article 我希望确保如果你做，你会接受在文章里
10: 01 Li Tuobang: what 什么？
10: 03 Yigal Achmon: you accept to be on any article that going out of this 你接受在任何文章里。
10: 05 Li Tuobang: you mean assign the name 你说署名。
10: 10 Yigal Achmon: yes accept, do work so you need to be. You do some work and you deserved well. 是，接受署名。你做了工作，你值得署名。 （他在指我2021年5月时跟他说的话，我可以帮你做，但你不要属我的名。）(He was referring to what I told him in May 2021: that I could help him with the work, but he should not list my name on it.)
10: 15 Li Tuobang: As long as something not very not like that 只要不是那种很那个的工作（当时2021年5月的测序实在太差了，我如果真的帮他干了还署名了，文章一发出来内行的人都知道，到时我会变成全行业的笑话，这种事我确实不敢干。他自己当时有困难，我说可以帮他做已经是极限了。）(The sequencing quality in May 2021 was so poor that if I had helped him and allowed my name to be included, the article would have exposed me as a joke to experts in the field. I truly didn’t want to take that risk. Given his difficulties at the time, offering to help him was already pushing my limits.)
10: 20 Yigal Achmon: it’s your main work and you did the main work your first without saying if you doing it with some collaboration it’s equally contributed 你做了主要的工作，你当然应该是一作。如果你和其他人有合作，那么共同一作。
10:28 Li Tuobang: I don’t. I well I think you misleading one thing that for my position I do not need a lot of papers for the application or something. 我觉得你误会了一些事情。从我的角度来说。我不需要很多论文去申请什么。 （我一个本科生，申请研究生有一篇比较好的文章就足够了，特别多文章对我来说没有用，而那种错漏百出的文章对我反而有副作用，我帮他做点事没有回报就算了，反过来还吃亏的事我可不愿意干。）(As an undergraduate, having one good paper is sufficient for applying to graduate school. Having too many papers is not particularly useful to me, and papers full of mistakes would actually have a negative impact. I at most do some tasks without expecting a return, but I am not inclined to take on work that could end up being detrimental to me.)
10: 40 Yigal Achmon: Okay yes and I don’t want to feel again for me my position I want to make sure that I’m fair with you. 是。我的意思是，从我的角度来说，我希望对你是公平的。
10: 50 Li Tuobang: oh well I first I need to say that, for my view, if you say fair, from my view, what I gain from something is okay for my view that what I gain from something and my gain is very different from other people’s views from gaining something because from other people maybe he do this project is to add the name and then get a recommendation letter and then apply for some programs right but for me for myself that I do this thing is that your this such issues related to agriculture and my and the project itself and my father was in forest pest management and it’s a little bit similar and anyway that I have some interest in doing this but 首先我要说，从我的角度，如果你说公平的话，我所理解的我得到的东西，和别人所理解的，是不一样的。对别人来说，他们可能是想署名，想得到推荐信，想申请某个项目。但对我来说，那些事情并不重要。我做一些和农业有关的事情，有这样的经历，而且和我爸的工作有点相关，就很好了，我有兴趣这样去做。 （对我来说，我读研可以很容易去任何想要去的学校。我有很多很多手段，不需要通过一篇有瑕疵的论文去申请项目。当然和他做事我也会预期会有署名，但那前提是署名的论文本身没有什么大问题。如果能署名一篇农业方面的论文，这个论文还和我爸的工作有些类似，我也有一定兴趣，这个事对我来说是划算的。 ）(For me, getting into any graduate program I want is relatively easy. I have many means at my disposal and don’t need to rely on a flawed paper to apply for programs. Of course, I would expect to have my name on some collaborative work, but that’s only if the paper itself doesn’t have significant flaws. If I could be listed as an author on a paper related to agriculture, which is somewhat similar to my father’s work and aligns with my interests, that would be worthwhile for me.)
11: 20 Yigal Achmon: what. you have to gain something. 但你需要得到些什么。 （他的意思是，如果你不署名，好像这不公平。而我的意思是，那样的文章我可以帮你，我不署名是我不想吃更多的亏。至于那个人情你在另外的文章补就可以了。但需要注意的是，他自己其实非常清楚我的意思，他这个人根本不在乎实际上我到底吃没吃亏，他需要的是能说服普通人我没有吃亏，如果我在那种错漏百出的论文里属了名，明明实际上是我吃亏了，但他可以说服一下不明真相的群众，说我给了他作者，是他得益了。）(His point was that it would seem unfair if I didn’t co-author the paper. My position was that I could help with the paper, but I preferred not to be listed as an author to avoid more potential loss. As for the personal favor, it could be balanced with another paper. However, it’s important to note that he was very aware of my true intentions. What he really cared about was not whether I actually lost out, but whether he could convince others that I hadn’t. If my name were on a paper full of errors, although I would be at a disadvantage, he could still persuade the uninformed that I had benefited him by being listed as an author.)
11:30 Li Tuobang: well first I say that I do this project and then I help, some students, of course add the name I did the things I added the name is it’s normal it’s normal it’s normal what I deserve right it’s yes it’s normal I well, I mean something like that if I do something not normally it’s normally normally I mean normally if I do something not add a name normally I will at first I will say that because I maybe I will first I me this 首先，我说，我做那样的工作，帮学生，署名，这很正常，我也值得。我的意思是，首先，首先。 （我当时不知道怎么回应他）(I didn’t know how to respond to him at the time.)
11:56 Yigal Achmon: if you’re doing the main thing you need should be the first makes sense 你做了主要的工作，你就是一作，这很合理。
11:59 Li Tuobang: because now my strategy changed I often work with other students because now for example now I work with a physican from the Guangdong pharmaceutical University yes it’s a diabetic research about diabetics 或许吧。现在我的策略变了，我经常和其他学生一起合作，比如我和一个广东药科大学的医生一起合作，做一个糖尿病的研究。 （我在避开继续讨论那个话题，总之我不想在有严重问题的论文上署名。我开始讲我和其他人的合作模式）(I was trying to avoid continuing the discussion on that topic; in any case, I did not want to be listed as an author on a paper with serious issues. I started talking about my collaboration model with others instead.)
12:13 Yigal Achmon: you said to me, I wish I knew about 你告诉过我，我希望我知道。 （在2024年5月项目刚开始的时候，我跟他讲过。当时我还是希望跟他谈，主要是他势力确实很大）(At the start of the project in May 2024, I had mentioned this to him. At that time, I was still hoping to discuss it with him, mainly because his influence was indeed quite significant.)
12:23 Li Tuobang: yes she is focusing in diabetics and so I also taught her student how to do something, computational work or something and we and we also I work with other students and some other students they also do a lot of work of course the major work is uh it’s by I also it’s okay 是，她是专注糖尿病的，我也教她的学生如何去做一些计算的工作。我也和其他学生一起做一些工作。他们也做了很多工作。 （我和其他教授的合作就是那样的，我和教授本人会讨论科研内容，然后也会教它的学生做生信的工作）(My collaboration with other professors works like this: I discuss the research content with the professor, and then I also help teach their students how to conduct bioinformatics work.)
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